Christianity vs Atheism Debate

Before I start my theory, I'd like to state some rules of this topic.

1.) Do not take the things said in this topic seriously, it's just a website, log off if your ears start to steam.
2.) You must have a little evidence backing up your theory.
3.) No insulting others.

Alright, now let's debate!

My theory is that there is a God, but not the fantasy one that Christians believe in.
I am all for debating about this.

A little evidence from one of our old friends states that something is miraculously holding the universe together, and I call this a higher force. By standard definition, God is the "supreme being" of the universe, so I'm forced to call this "higher force" God.

Just by being a Christian and sticking by my beliefs.. I believe there is a God. Life doesn't come from nothing.. We all had to have been created.

Sure, but we could have been created by anything.
We could have been an original idea from Satan himself.
Ever thought of aliens At least we have photos of possible UFOs.

Just sayin, Vlace got me worked up and I still want one piece of evidence of the christian God.

The flood proves the Bible's god.

Simple as that.

The flood proves nothing. The flood could have been as simple as a "before-time" global warming.

Atheism is a double standard. They say Christianity is false because there is no proof, but assert that they're correct in their assumptions because there is no proof. I'm agnostic myself but each side has its share of arrogance and near-sightedness.

Atheism is not a double standard, it is we simply do not believe in God.

Christianity, however, relies on faith for their problems. If there was an almighty God why would our world suck so bad?

Aye because people forgot that there demons also that are destroying the planet.like paranomal activity or the exocrist

Sheesh... Ken...

It doesn't take any faith to believe there is no God? After how I owned you on the other site? Are you legit? Can we play poker some time? Please?

Okay, you claimed to have owned me with science, let's talk science.

Fact #1: God was EXCLUDED from all possibilities of Science long ago.

Fact #2: In the bible it claims that God created Earth, however there is a scientific explanation that the Earth was created otherwise, and it doesn't include God. Or at least, the Christian God.

You erased my post...

im a Christian, although i'm kind of open to to the idea of God using evolution to create humans.

I deleted your post because I'm tired of hearing your idiotic nonsense of Science that can't prove the Christian God.

This explains alot of things like atoms,blood,radio waves even space

Here we go with more idiotic science.

Atheism, cannot be defeated so easily.
You can prove that most things happened in the bible, like the flood, or anything, but you can NEVER prove that the Christian God had anything to do with it.

I'm not going to reread or rewatch 50 thousand things when not even one of them have proven a bearded man in the sky who caused all of this.

I never once even claimed that I don't believe in a God, I only stated I don't believe in the Christian God.

Think about this; do you believe in Mythology?
Mythology manipulated things that already exist, like stars, to make it seem more believable.

In my belief, the Bible did the same. Some man who had heard about a flood, and had heard about a bunch of "miracles" manipulated these into idiotic beliefs that he knew would one day be famous.

He was really smart.

If 2012 happens, and I just so happen to survive, I could write a book about Satan being God and God being Satan and God trying to destroy all humanity and Satan saved me and told me to write a book about his saving of the world.

See what I did there? I manipulated an event to make it seem like something more supernatural happened, when really all that happened was I miraculously survived an apocalypse.

You had no right or authority to delete my post.

Here is your post when responding to my statement of how I destroyed you on the other site using science to prove that the universe could not have been here more than 20,000 years ago. And how it NEEDED an intelligent designer to work.

Spoiler:

Hmm... Alright as i pointed out before(before my post was erased unjustly) this is not science at all, it is all opinion.

Now here you go with your comments. This is so awesome.

"I deleted your post because I'm tired of hearing your idiotic nonsense of Science that can't prove the Christian God."

"Here we go with more idiotic science."

Well... Are we actually going to talk science? Or are you going to stick with your opinions and try to pass them off as science?

Tenzin... You picked him as your admin? Haha.

And Lei... You still haven't told me how we got here without a Christian God. At least what you think is the way. Remember that the parameters are that the universe is under 20,000 years old, it had to have a designer.It has to explain the flood, all the divergence and convergence of animals, the diversity of humans, the perfect setup of ecosystems and symbiosis of animals, especially in the sea. Explain Circle patterns across continents and the CO2 and O cycle balance between plants and animals. Explain to me how a flower down in south america "learned" to grow "butterfly eggs" on it so the butterfly wouldn't come and lay eggs saving it from being eaten by larvae. Explain to me the complexity of even the simplest cell that is more complex than a rocket ship. Explain to me how cells are more effiecent and are better equipped then anything we can make. Explain to me the perfect design of our body. Or whales? How about them? Dolphins are even better. Explain to me how they work without a perfect all loving god. Explain to me how there is a base moral system that is implanted in us that we all have with out that perfect God.

Explain to me the perfect design of our universe and the perfect spot in it for us using a god that doesn't love us. Explain to me why humans have the ability to put down their own safety for someone else if this planet runs on "survival of the fittest" or the FLIGHT response. Explain to me how the Bible that was written over the course of several lifetimes and generations has prophecies that happened to teh day of prediction. How is the bible the most historicly accurate book we have and the most scientificlly advanced if it was written by mere man? It had to have been guided by something that knew what was going to happen, knew what had happened, and knew how everything ran. And why, Lei, woud something that doesn't love us waste time to tell us mere mortals, something so amazing? Why would He waste his time with us? He had to have wanted us to know= him loving us.

Explain to me this and more with the world being under 20,000 years, there had to have been an all powerful designer.

Aliens? Nope. They couldn't have designed the universe. They are part of it.
An unthinking, all pwerful force? Nope, had to think to make us.
Umm... How about a god that doesn't love us... Had to love us to make everything so perfect for us.

Explain this to me. To us.

Alright, now to once again decline your fail.

First of all, Aliens could have designed the universe. Your argument; "They are part of it."

Well if I design and create a house certainly I'm going to live in it and be a part of it, now won't I?

And this universe isn't perfect, if you haven't noticed. Constant beliefs that the universe could one day destroy Earth is a rather large factor.

For instance, the moon moves away from the Earth 1 inch every year, it may not seem like much but it will build up. The moon protects the Earth in so very many ways, and if it gets too far away; game over.

And your statement "He had to have wanted us to know".

If he wanted us to know about his protection over the Earth and love for the people wouldn't he be protecting the Earth and loving the people right now?

Daily, people commit suicide because they aren't loved. Not by anyone in their life and certainly not by a bearded man in the sky.

Another one of your unclear statements;

"there had to have been an all powerful designer."

I already told you I believed in someone designing the universe, but I don't believe in the occurences in the Bible happening by someone who hasn't been proven real.

If I do something really great, like bring presents to all of the people in the world, can I say Santa did it and that be the truth?

Bad question, but it lead me to this belief;

Santa is believed in by many children, because they have hope that they will get what they want for Christmas for being good.

God, however, is far worse. People believe in him because their lives suck and they need to hope they go to lah lah land when they die.

There are many things that could have possibly happened from the Bible but think about the supernatural things;

Can you prove that Jesus was crucified? No.
Can you prove that each time we sin we are forgiven by Jesus? No.
Can you prove that Jesus rose from the dead? No.
Can you find the Cross Jesus was hung on? No.
Can you prove that Satan exists? No.
Can you prove that God exists? From my view, far from it. Lawl
Can you prove that Satan was once an angel? No.
Can you prove that there is heaven? No.
Can you prove that there is hell? No.
Can you prove that Mary turned into Ashes for looking back? NO!

You can't prove any of this.
BUT,
you can only however prove that a flood, our universes imperfect structure, and many other natural occurring things were manipulated into making you believe in God?

You've brought tears from laughter in my eyes, and each time you post Gods belief just get lousier and lousier.

Quite honestly, no one cares for you, Vlace. Tenzin chose me to be admin because obviously his previous moderators weren't loyal, but they were only lousy members and were no help whatsoever.

We can, however, thank you Vlace, for taking the worthless members off of our site and putting them on a separate inactive site. It's like taking all the trash in the world and putting in into a black hole, where it will never be seen again.

However, you continue to return to our site because you want a taste of what activity is.

Face it, your site is failing.

You have two members conjuring up 50% of the posts and 40% of all posts are rules / guidelines.

And since you've broken numerous rules in the site, I'm implementing a ban on you. Take your trash somewhere else, away from Earth, perhaps?

" Aliens could have designed the universe" i have to agree on this one because i was thinking about this for a while since i saw a episode in ben 10 ultiment alien.

When each alien x is born a new universe is born so it connects to a few things.

when the alien x grow and universe grows too which it does. also the alien x was born from a point and so was the universe.

i know its stupid to seem an idea from a cartoon show but what if god was an alien x. because i would think it would be a good explanation

http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_X
again i know its childish but its my theroy.

Before I get into this, I want to clear up that Athiesm is someone who doesn't believe in God. Agnostic is someone who questions whether or not God exists and doesn't conform to religion. (Lei this describes you imo)

I myself am Agnostic.

Earth King Lei wrote:

A little evidence from one of our old friends states that something is miraculously holding the universe together, and I call this a higher force. By standard definition, God is the "supreme being" of the universe, so I'm forced to call this "higher force" God.

By holding together do you mean keeping the universe stable from not faling apart? From what I've read, the universe is slowly but constantly expanding, it could still have a 'force' banding it together, but it would be a 'force not a 'being'. A 'force' like gravity for instance. HOWEVER, gravity or that 'force' COULD be the WILL of GOD.

Edit: Upon further examination, I think I was unclear I guess what I was saying is that God's not the 'force' that does this but the 'force' is there because of God.

Earth King Lei wrote:

Sure, but we could have been created by anything. We could have been an original idea from Satan himself. Ever thought of aliens At least we have photos of possible UFOs. Just sayin, Vlace got me worked up and I still want one piece of evidence of the christian God.

Very true.

Sancarra wrote:

The flood proves the Bible's god. Simple as that.

Many religions through many cultures speak of a flood. As well as great floods before the fabled Noah's flood. Ever read Plato on Atlantis? The Egyptian High Priests, before their library was destroyed, claimed they had records describing 4 great floods.

Earth King Lei wrote:

Atheism is not a double standard, it is we simply do not believe in God. Christianity, however, relies on faith for their problems. If there was an almighty God why would our world suck so bad?

What Zez is saying is that Athiests believes there's no God because of no proof but where's the proof that there's no God?

Btw, the world sucks because it's not perfect, if it was it would be heaven, which is allegedly in the afterlife, which is After Life, so this life isn't perfect. You can never appeciate the good without knowing the bad. If you were rich your whole life you wouldn't appreciate money, but if you were poor and became rich, that's a different story.

About faith, faith is a delicate understanding, even proper christians lack this. Also faith isn't restricted to christianity or religion either.

Sancara wrote:

Sheesh... Ken... It doesn't take any faith to believe there is no God? After how I owned you on the other site? Are you legit? Can we play poker some time? Please?

Actually it doesn't. Faith in a way is like leaving something up to something else because of a belief. Believing there is no God however is just a belief. If there's any faith, it's faith in he athiest themself that they're correct in their theology/spirituality.

Also, you cannot 'own' anyone in a religious debate, nations have been debating with other nations about God for millenias with the use of weapons.

Earth King Lei wrote:

Okay, you claimed to have owned me with science, let's talk science. Fact #1: God was EXCLUDED from all possibilities of Science long ago. Fact #2: In the bible it claims that God created Earth, however there is a scientific explanation that the Earth was created otherwise, and it doesn't include God. Or at least, the Christian God.

On Fact #1 - I don't quite understand this. You mean to say, for a fact, science has concluded God doesn't exist? If I'm not mistaken, didn't you believe or at least consider in A God(some higher being), wouldn't this contradict that? Maybe I read this fact wrong, if I did, I apologize.

Fact #2 - I don't remember the bible word for word, but I don't recall them describing God physically creating the Earth. So God could have "willed" it to happen like "magic", God could have USED "science" to create Earth. For example, if the Big Bang is true, people use this to denounce God, however, God could have set up all the necessary elements/chemicals/building blocks of life, and set it up like dominoes and then BANG, burst it out into some dimension, thus creating the Universe, still adhering to the laws of physics...because God could have created the laws that construct the laws of physics in the first place, there's no proof to support OR deny this claim.

Sancarra wrote:

And Lei... You still haven't told me how we got here without a Christian God. At least what you think is the way. Remember that the parameters are that the universe is under 20,000 years old, it had to have a designer.It has to explain the flood, all the divergence and convergence of animals, the diversity of humans, the perfect setup of ecosystems and symbiosis of animals, especially in the sea. Explain Circle patterns across continents and the CO2 and O cycle balance between plants and animals. Explain to me how a flower down in south america "learned" to grow "butterfly eggs" on it so the butterfly wouldn't come and lay eggs saving it from being eaten by larvae. Explain to me the complexity of even the simplest cell that is more complex than a rocket ship. Explain to me how cells are more effiecent and are better equipped then anything we can make. Explain to me the perfect design of our body. Or whales? How about them? Dolphins are even better. Explain to me how they work without a perfect all loving god. Explain to me how there is a base moral system that is implanted in us that we all have with out that perfect God.

Explain to me the perfect design of our universe and the perfect spot in it for us using a god that doesn't love us. Explain to me why humans have the ability to put down their own safety for someone else if this planet runs on "survival of the fittest" or the FLIGHT response. Explain to me how the Bible that was written over the course of several lifetimes and generations has prophecies that happened to teh day of prediction. How is the bible the most historicly accurate book we have and the most scientificlly advanced if it was written by mere man? It had to have been guided by something that knew what was going to happen, knew what had happened, and knew how everything ran. And why, Lei, woud something that doesn't love us waste time to tell us mere mortals, something so amazing? Why would He waste his time with us? He had to have wanted us to know= him loving us.

Explain to me this and more with the world being under 20,000 years, there had to have been an all powerful designer. Aliens? Nope. They couldn't have designed the universe. They are part of it. An unthinking, all pwerful force? Nope, had to think to make us. Umm... How about a god that doesn't love us... Had to love us to make everything so perfect for us. Explain this to me. To us.

Whoooooa!! Hold your horses. 20,000 years? Ok first of all science claims dinosaurs were extinct 65,000,000 years ago, according to mainstream science. You subscribe to science and are claiming Earth is 20 thousands yrs old? (Actually you said the 'universe' that makes it even more unbelievable)

Now..it's very well POSSIBLE that the Earth is A LOT younger due to our testing methods come down to testing isotopes, which can be faulty and usually contains a lot of discrepencies.(spelling?) HOWEVER, what's your testing to conclude it's 20,000 years old?!

Now moving on, first your not exactly using science to prove God, your using scientific facts and deductive REASONING. Because of how intricate and coincidetal A and B are thus God must have designed them. That just makes God more PROBABLE not actually existant. The universe could have made C and D off the basis of A and B, very complex, but doesn't NEED an intelligent designer.

Also wanted to note when you went off about love, Lei never mentioned about God's capabiliy of love, but of his existence.

MY OPINION? I do believe it was done by an intellient designer. The world is beautifuly complex and it is perfect. The only non-perfect thing I've realized, is mankind.

Oh and there are some historical accuracies with the bible other than the flood but I don't believe "prediction" per se have yet come true yet also wha implies that the bible is scientifically advanced...?

Earth King Lei wrote:

First of all, Aliens could have designed the universe. Your argument; "They are part of it." Well if I design and create a house certainly I'm going to live in it and be a part of it, now won't I?

Problem with this is, on what dimension/plane/ or existence could te alien's have been on to create the 'universe'? Using your example, to build that house, how can you when the foundation or the area you reside doesn't exist before you build it? If Aliens created anything it makes more sense if it was biological life, like makind.

Earth King Lei wrote:

And this universe isn't perfect, if you haven't noticed. Constant beliefs that the universe could one day destroy Earth is a rather large factor. For instance, the moon moves away from the Earth 1 inch every year, it may not seem like much but it will build up. The moon protects the Earth in so very many ways, and if it gets too far away; game over.

This doesn't make the universe not perfect, everything must come to an end, perfection isn't immortality or invincibility, it's a flawless-ness, for intance the universe as a SYSTEM works, flawlessly and is very complex, you can chalk it up to perfect. What Sancarra was saying, not by FACT but from REASONING, this perfection = an intelligent designer.

Earth King Lei wrote:

If he wanted us to know about his protection over the Earth and love for the people wouldn't he be protecting the Earth and loving the people right now? Daily, people commit suicide because they aren't loved. Not by anyone in their life and certainly not by a bearded man in the sky.

I replied to a similar statement from you above, in case it was missed, the gist I said: Without bad you can't appreciate good, cannot know happines without sadness. This isn't heaven and it makes sense for it to resemble a chaotic obstacle course if you will.

The rest of your last post I don't necessarily agree with, however I have nothing to say against it.

Earth King Lei wrote:

And since you've broken numerous rules in the site, I'm implementing a ban on you. Take your trash somewhere else, away from Earth, perhaps?

Aw, does this mean he won't be able to read my responses to him? =/

Btw, I understand you both have a history and got a bit heated, just wanted to be fair and state you ironically broke your rule about not insulting or taking this too personally lol. =P

Avalon Uchiha wrote:

i know its stupid to seem an idea from a cartoon show but what if god was an alien x. because i would think it would be a good explanation http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_X again i know its childish but its my theroy.

It's not stupid, I've got a lot of ideals and beliefs from vdeo games. It may not be healthy, but not stupid nor childish. Remember shows geared for kids are still written by adults, they'll use mythology, concepts, and beliefs into their stories.

One theory I like to fantasize and play around with are about Ancient Aliens. The show Ancient Aliens discusses this theory and it's very interesting. Using aliens to explain many anomalies in mankinds ancient history. Just keep in mind, the show has an agenda, to prove it's theory and it's a series so they probably rushed some things they declare as 'facts'. What i'm saying is, even if it's a scientific tv show, some science may be false. So you must balance an open mind and a skeptical mind, so you won't ever be blindsided.

Thanks for that rather large post, but I'm too lazy to read it all. I skimmed it, and yes I guess I'm Agnostic.

But you can't bring 'science' into the picture when God was excluded from science, and science also proves how the universe was created.

I think we've established that everyone has their own beliefs ( some with more idiotic logic than others *cough* Vlace *cough* ) so we're good here.

Yeah super epic wall of text lol, and no doubt we all have our beliefs, i hope i wasnt coming across as forcing anything, just like a good friendly debate.

No, it was fine.
I believe there is some type of God, but not the Christian God.

READ NOW!!

This morning I woke up, and for some reason I started thinking about this whole concept... and after so much thinking I had the worst headache I have ever head in my entire lifespan on the Earth... I have finally come to a conclusion which will most likely blow you away for an unknown amount of time!


If you do not believe me, here is my proof:

/gasp

Impressive!

Liao please read this out loud!! "Fujin Kaze will win the lottery."

Keep believing', perhaps one day it will happen! (can be applied on multiple occasions!)